Bearing It All EP 2: Delegation and Building Sustainably with Heather Snaman

Kate (00:00)

Hello, hello and welcome to the Bearing It All podcast. I am your host, Kate Ginsberg. Today, I am honored to introduce y'all to my dearest friend, Heather Snaman. We have been friends for almost 14 years, 13 and a half if you start counting when we finally learned each other's names. After six whole months of awkwardness, seeing each other every month, but both being too embarrassed to ask. From teaching me how to wear my baby so I could work with him along.

Heather Snaman (00:18)

Ha

Kate (00:28)

to offering to help grow Queen of To Do to what it is today. Heather is incredible, generous, and always a f*cking professional. Welcome to our show. Thank you so much for being here. I know and love you, but I'm so excited to introduce you to our guests.

Heather Snaman (00:46)

Thank you, Kate. That was a really amazing introduction. You were very sweet. And I'm totally comfortable being here today.

Kate (00:50)

Hahahaha!

Fake it till you make it, baby. We can do it.

All right,

if you would just give us a quick rundown of who you are, what you do, and where you are currently in your entrepreneurial journey.

Heather Snaman (01:10)

Awesome. So, hi. I joined Queen is to do about four years ago, almost four years ago, after spending a lot of time building my resume in the nonprofit world. And I love it here. So it's quite a journey over the years. My responsibilities have changed a lot as our business needs have changed.

but I am COO and right now I spend a lot of time doing tech and marketing, which are kind of my two favorite areas of focus and the website. So yeah, that's kind of where I am. I've really enjoyed being a part of Queen of To Do's growth over the years.

Kate (02:05)

You promised me slow steady growth when we started. Our time was pretty nice. It's okay. It's a wonderful ride and like so bonkers but yes you you did just straight up lie to me in very beginning.

Heather Snaman (02:07)

I lied.

Hahaha

It's like we're gonna start this business relationship off on a rocky foundation.

Kate (02:24)

Okay.

What?

I feel like Rocky is fine. Rocky is stable. It's stern.

Heather Snaman (02:34)

Yeah, yeah. ⁓

so maybe a little quicksand like foundation.

Kate (02:41)

We haven't drowned yet. It's fine.

We got this. Okay, so I have 10 cards here, each with a different question. So I need you to pick a number, one through 10.

Heather Snaman (02:53)

⁓ let's do number three.

Kate (02:57)

think that's what Michael picked.

Heather Snaman (03:01)

really?

Kate (03:01)

That's okay, I shuffle them each time. They're never the same. All right, so your question. ⁓ this is a good one. What's one piece of advice you often hear given to entrepreneurs that you completely disagree with?

Heather Snaman (03:03)

Okay, good.

Okay, let me think that through. I guess it's something that we have really focused on a lot from the start and sometimes we're better at it than others. People talk about needing to just grind and grind and grind and put your head down and just get it all done, do it yourself. You know, you're...

you're the owner or you're the first employee, so you need to just figure it out. Right, yeah, just hard work. And I think we've, while there are times that we are certainly working hard, and especially you are often pulling a lot more hours than I am, but like,

Kate (03:53)

You

Heather Snaman (04:13)

recognizing the importance of stepping back for a minute and resting and delegating as you know we're so very fond of here at Queen of To Do really allows you to come back with fresh eyes and get shit done that you know you otherwise wouldn't really be able to and that's a lesson that you have forced me to learn

a couple times over the years is, yeah, being able to take a moment for yourself and not force... When you have a lot of other things going on in your life, this is going terribly. I'm so bad at this.

Kate (05:04)

No, you're doing phenomenal and I-

You answered this how I really would answer it myself, where like that so much of like the the 2000s and 2010s was that hustle and grind culture where you have to work yourself to burn out and anything that you love should be monetized. If you've got hobbies, you should be selling them and just

Heather Snaman (05:14)

Yeah.

Kate (05:33)

No, like sometimes we just need to do things for the joy of doing them. And also, you and I have talked about this a lot over the years. You can decide when to rest or your body will tell you when you're going to rest. And you and I both just within the last year have done a fine job occasionally of working ourselves to the point of illness. You with, it's okay if I say this, pneumonia and COVID over the summer and me with a bout of shingles at the end of the summer.

Heather Snaman (05:45)

Yes.

Yeah. Right.

Kate (06:03)

you know, both things that like you really do have to rest. And if you try to keep pushing through, it's just making the whole thing so much worse. So I honestly am really pumped about the way you started answering this. And it allowed us to also crack the door open to something that we are both fierce advocates for, which is delegation as self-care and really

Heather Snaman (06:27)

Yes, absolutely.

Kate (06:30)

Like you and I both very capable women, very like competent women, we can do anything. However, we both have been on that slippery slope to I have to do everything. And despite the fact that we tell so many of our clients, know, delegation is self care and like, you deserve to have help that is much easier said than done. You know, and

Heather Snaman (06:42)

Yes, absolutely.

Yeah.

It's a skill that needs to be really carefully honed and learned. I've gotten a lot better at delegating, especially to our team, as we've grown it and as I've grown confidence in their abilities. But even still, it feels like I'm always pushing myself just a little bit outside of my comfort zone whenever I give them a new task. And I know they're...

They're amazing and competent and I love our team.

There's so much like ownership and you know think both of us really recognize that Queen of To Do is like a big part of our I don't know core beliefs and our you know our own value to some extent which I don't love and you know capitalist society but but but we work really hard for it and I want everything to be representing us as perfectly as we can and as exactly in my vision as we can. like Being in marketing and saying, you know, you do this, you do this, you do this and being willing to step away and be like, you know what? It's good. It's not exactly what I would have done, but it's good. And I can handle that. Yup. Yeah. You tell me that a lot. For good reason.

Kate (08:22)

Good enough is good enough, and done is better than perfect. you... All the time, really.

All the time. I mean, it's... The thing is, you can tweak things forever. Or... Same. Same. Or especially when it's something you're putting out there into the world. And this kind of goes back to the monetizing hobbies as well, like...

Heather Snaman (08:38)

I will. Yeah.

Mm-hmm.

Kate (08:52)

If I'm just doing something for the joy of it, it does not matter if it is perfect. But if I am doing the identical thing for somebody else or to sell, then it needs to be perfect. And yes, which of course then sends me on a really fun ADHD anxiety spiral while those are my favorite. I don't know what that's like at all. No, you never go down a rabbit hole of disaster ever.

Heather Snaman (09:03)

It ratchets up that, yeah.

I don't know what that's like at all.

Ever.

Kate (09:21)

never. There's always more to learn and improve and do better. But being I agree that being able to kind of step back and let somebody else do things, it might not be our perfect, but it is certainly good enough. And, and sometimes better. Like, I am astounded by the amount of times that I hand something off to the team. And I'm like, I just need this done. And like,

Heather Snaman (09:38)

Yeah.

Right, off your plate.

Kate (09:50)

this is kind of my outline, the points I want to hit, go. Do the thing. They do an incredible job. Like, undoubtedly, they are better at some things than I am. And being able to step back and say, yes, this is yours now, like, it's, it's.

Heather Snaman (09:57)

Yeah.

That's.

I think that's really been a big part of our success too is like, we're both pretty confident in our own, you know, areas of expertise and willing to admit when we don't know what we don't know and not... I think there are a lot of entrepreneurs who feel threatened by hiring people who are better than them at things.

They think that they should be the best at everything. And we're like, no, no, no, we're not. And having people who are so capable and brilliant in their own areas of expertise and just like trust falling into their talents and letting them get it done is powerful.

Kate (11:07)

There's, I, so I think like a little mini shout out for our team here. I think the other thing is like watching people on our team or clients go from doing a great job, but not being confident in those abilities and second guessing and feeling like there's always something they could do better and watching them really grow into. their confidence and, you know, and I think we both do a lot of, of coaching in a way, both with clients and employees where we're like, no, you're doing a great job. Like this is amazing. There's, there's power in that and watching as they kind of build that confidence is incredible. And like, that's one thing that I love hearing from our team is

Heather Snaman (11:36)

Yeah.

And each other. Yeah.

Kate (12:06)

You're so supportive as I, you know, like we know that our team's gonna make mistakes. We're humans. You and I f*ck it up every day. In new and interesting ways that we never knew existed. But here we are, moving. And learning along the way of, well that was a significant misstep. We shouldn't do things like that again. You know, but like.

Heather Snaman (12:12)

Hmm.

Just try not to drop the same ball more than once. Yeah.

Yeah.

Kate (12:35)

sticking it out and seeing it through and modeling that for our team, for our kids, for our clients that like, we don't always get the expected end result, but we learn a little each time and improve and move forward and don't give up, you know.

Heather Snaman (12:54)

I think part of the confidence thing that makes me really excited too is that, you know, we've kind of found that stay at home moms are such a great niche for us to hire from because stay at home moms know how to get shit done. They know how to run a household and they, but sometimes if they've been out of the job market for, you know, a decade, it can be a little bit, you know, uncomfortable and, you know, hard to return to the job world and being able to have people take those very real skills that they have been developing at home or, you know, just, I mean, you know, at home is a misnomer, but, you know, running a family, managing a family in a home.

And yeah, allow them to put those into their professional career is like that feels good. having people recognize that, ⁓ I I learned a lot and this is useful and good and it's getting me somewhere. is, yeah, great fun.

Kate (14:01)

It's.

Yeah. We've definitely built a unique model company together over the years. It has been a wild ride and it boggles my mind. My flabbers are ghasted that it's been a little over three and a half years since you came on board.

Heather Snaman (14:31)

You

Okay. Yes, May of

21, right?

Kate (14:42)

Yep. So a little backstory for our listeners. I've been in business with Queen of To Do. I launched it when I was 26 back in 2011 with an eight-week-old baby in a carrier on my back and that is just how we worked for the first several years. COVID hit my second husband is immune compromised. He had done I think at that point, that point was after his first round of clinical trial for his lymphoma. And May of 2021, clients were starting to come back, vaccines were out. It was a little safer for me to be going into homes and all of the original clients that I worked with, I think I had eight at that point, just me. It's far too many for one human, but it's fine. Past Kate, she's a time. Questionable life choices all the way down. Oh, grind, grind, grind, all the things.

Heather Snaman (15:24)

Yeah.

Grind, grind, grind.

Kate (15:32)

husband with cancer in and out of the hospital. So I was lamenting to a group chat that Heather and I are both in that I just, I, you know, like I didn't know how I was going to do this. And she private messaged me and said, what's, what's holding you back? went, girl, don't see my life. is what The world is on fire.

Heather Snaman (15:55)

Look around.

Kate (16:01)

Cancer, like, my God, what's

Heather Snaman (16:02)

Still is.

Kate (16:02)

holding me back besides, I don't know, everything. Everything. But really it came down to time. I didn't have to, you know, like this is what clients have been telling me, entrepreneurial clients have been telling me the entire time I've worked for them. I don't have time. I don't have time to hire and train and, you know, put out a job listing, an interview, and all of the things that go into running a business, growing a business.

Heather Snaman (16:05)

every single thing.

Kate (16:30)

And what you said next stopped me dead in my tracks. What if I help you? And I lovingly told you I could afford to pay you zero dollars. And your response was, we'll figure it out. that was such a pivotal moment in my entrepreneurial journey because I didn't know where to start.

Heather Snaman (16:41)

Hahaha!

Yeah.

Mine too.

Kate (16:59)

You stepping in and saying, if I help you, really was the beginning of my professional delegation journey, you know, where we kind of figured out how do we divide what we're best at? How do we, how do we want to grow this? You know, and, we were very particular about how we chose to set up our company with staff and, you know, and then learning the hard way, you know.

pricing and learning how to read a cash flow and like all of these things that didn't matter when it was just me, we've done it together, you know, and we've had hard points and bonkers situations come up, but We've managed to make it through. And I think part of that is that our business and our values are so aligned.

Heather Snaman (17:31)

Yep.

Absolutely.

Kate (17:58)

and we stick to them, you know, all the time and have a conversation around like what aligns with us, what really is going to get us from point A to point B that still feels good and isn't capitalist bullsh*t, you know, like we're not always putting our

Heather Snaman (18:01)

And we talk about them a lot and really, yeah.

Kate (18:27)

Like we're not running our team into the ground to line our.

Heather Snaman (18:30)

Looking for

the cheap win and yeah, short term win.

Kate (18:35)

Right. It's all about keeping our eye on how do we want to keep doing this in a way that builds our team, builds up our clients, you know, really is supportive of all people involved, not self-serving, you know, we're going to be millionaires by the end of the year, us too, while our team is on food stamps and assistance, you know, like how do we do this in a way that really builds everybody up instead of just us.

Heather Snaman (19:04)

Right, I'm sorry. I'm doing this at home as you know.

Kate (19:08)

I understand.

Heather Snaman (19:12)

Would you like to be on the podcast? Real life with.

Kate (19:13)

⁓ sweet babies. Hi, baby. ⁓ Matt. All right. On that note,

I worked with a baby on my back for the better part of five of the last 14 years. Like, I get it. And we actually were just on a Zoom call with some others that we're working with, and my kiddo did exactly the same thing. So on that note.

Heather Snaman (19:38)

This is what business looks

like now.

Kate (19:41)

It is what business looks like now

and I am here for it. On that note, we are about at the end of our time. Heather, thank you so much for joining me today on Bearing It All. Be sure to join us for future conversations and keep building those authentic, genuine connections with people that support you in being your true and full self in your business, your relationships, and your life.

Heather Snaman (20:05)

You say bye. Bye. Thanks, Kate. Talk to you later.

Kate (20:08)

Bye, we'll see you later.